RE: Edited out emoticon in Crabby thread

The following is a thread posting I made to a discussion on the Bountiful forum. I have moved it here to The Blunt Edge World because within minutes of posting, a couple newer members of the forum showed it was not well received. I felt that what I had to say was worthwhile, but since I was not asking for others to publicly critique me or to create potential for other contention because I speak frankly, I have replaced the comment in the forum and placed it here for those who care to examine the comment objectively and see if the words contain any merit.

arbilad wrote:
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If the consensus is PMs, we can do that in the future. When we started this forum the emphasis was on doing absolutely everything publicly. Experience, I think, has shown that to be the wrong path. So I'm sorry if I caused hurt by posting about it publicly. But in this case I think the discussion of emoticons has been helpful. It could certainly have taken place in absence of a moderation action, though.
Who has been assuming that others know what is offensive to them? I was nearly certain earlier, and am certain now that you posted, that you intended absolutely nothing negative by your use of that emoticon, and were not aware that it could be offensive.



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I'm may regret saying this (or I'm sure some folks will probably expect me to regret it), but I'm going to regret more not saying it. I have been trying to take a sabbatical from this forum, and the farther I get from here in emotional vesting, the more and more I am seeing Bountiful seems to be turning into nothing more than an extension of that place across the river. And for the time, energy, and emotion I have vested in this forum over the past year, I can't just ignore the current state of things.


Arbi, "Who has been assuming that others know what is offensive to them?"

Well, it seems like you have lately, for one. I am surprised that you would ask that, but then again that is from my perspective.

For example, you made a mountain out of a molehill about one word I used over two weeks ago, and everytime I tried to ask that the issue be dropped it was like adding fuel to a fire. And then when I tried to start a discussion to resolve the difference of opinion, I was told by word and action not once, but twice that discussion was summarily done and that there would be no further discussion (remind you folks of anything or place?). AND all the while it turned into harp on Cat time.

Now, another mountain seems to have been made over something not even as big as a molehill.

If people insist on going out of their way to find things to be offended at, as a forum, we shouldn't expect people to know what is considered offensive to any subset of people in this forum unless there is a publicly posted and agreed upon list that states this word or phrase or emoticon are offensive (and why). Otherwise, it is all subjective and individually interpretable, which is neither pragmatic nor common sense.

Unless I am mistaken, part of the reason Bountiful was set up was to avoid all that subjective application of and interpretation of rules we all were /are subject to elsewhere. We also set this forum up to allow people the opportunity to express their opinions freely within the confines of the agreed upon and posted rules, without fear of censorship or retribution. Arbi, if you want to start ruling "your" forum the way it seems you are moving, have fun... I thought this was "our" forum, meaning it belonged to the group as a whole and would be run transparently and with at least the semblence of democracy.

That transparency, by way of reminder, was that if an offense occured publicly, the resolution of the offense was to occur publicly and that if an offense occured privately, it is to occur privately. If you are offended by something privately, then if you can't forgive and let it slide, you take it between you and the individual who offended you privately and work it out. If you are publicly offended, then you work it out publicly for the benefit of all. As the scripture says, leave your offering at the alter until it is resolved and then return so that your offering can then be acceptable unto The Lord. Making everything private is counterintuitive to people actually doing that, or so has been my experience. And, the transparency was also put in place to be a check against moderators / administrators power abuse.

The private and public offense reactions are being mixed up here in both examples, the word I used and the use of the particular emoticon by Poncho. A few people may have been privately offended by either or both, but nothing was said privately to either of us to allow us the opportunity to self-edit. Okay, shouldn't it then be logical to assume that if there was any offense taken, it was allowed to slide off the offendee's back? Instead, there were public accusations of rule breaking with a connotation perhaps it was purposeful offense giving. That may be in order from a moderation standpoint IF there was an accepted standard by which to measure offensive commentary against. But there is none. Rather, statements from moderators and non-moderators alike are made that if only people understood things the way someone else understands them then others would see it the same way and agree (e.g. have read William F. Buckley or are familiar with British Naval history or British etymology). Isn't that attitude what forum rule five was created to speak out against and say was wrong?

There is a far simpler way to handle this than what it appears you feel you need to default to, Arbi, and it is to keep with the original intent of the forum rules and ideal. Forum rules and official policy, with the requisite level of granularity needed, that is put out to the forum membership for discussion and voted on for adoption. There is no need to consolidate power or take a heavy top down hand in moderation like you seem to be moving towards.

No one moderator (including yourself even as administrator, Arbi) has the right to unilaterally dictate what is and is not deemed offensive (except in egregious circumstances) and moderate it out without giving the individual who posted the item in question the right to self-edit first. Offense can be avoided as easily, perhaps more so, when individuals are less apt to find offense.

I suggest that we stick by what the Bountiful forum ideal was by everyone exercising an extraordinary amount of letting things roll off their back. In addition to this, let us establish a specific standard by which agreed upon offensive commentary can be measured. That way, if one has breeched compliance with that publicly, a public courteous reminder be given, allowing the individual to bring the comment into compliance. What we don't need for sustaining the unique sense of community Bountiful once had, and hopefully can regain, is to encourage (actively or passively) a culture where people talk behind each other's backs, complain privately (and from the offendor's standpoint anonymously) about others to moderators or other forum members, take offense at every little thing, and are afraid of giving offense at every turn.

We seem to be suffering as a forum from a drop in trust between and towards one another. And it is manifesting itself in a variety of ways. This whole nonsense we have been exhibiting about little phrases, words, or emoticons is just a symptom.

Need a Snicker or Mild Guffaw?

Came across a print out of an e-mail a former co-worker sent me over three years ago.

The guy is a goofball, and a good several years my junior. Anyway, we had all kinds of fun joking around for the two or three years we worked together. Many a day I wish his joking were around to counter the otherwise dullness of work.

Anyway, this e-mail had some jokes in it. I responded to them at the time with a snare drum roll and cymbal crash and questioned if he had gotten these at www.oldloungecomedianjokes.com or something.

They were pretty corny.

But a couple were pretty funny too.

Like...

Two aerial antennas meet on a roof, fall in love and get married. The ceremony wasn't much, but the reception was excellent.

or

An invisible man marries an invisible woman. The kids were nothing to look at either.

or

A man takes his rottweiler to the vet and says, "My dog's cross-eyed, is there anything you can do for him?" "Well," says the vet, "let's have a look at him." So he picks the dog up and examines his eyes, then checks his teeth. Finally, he says "I'm going to have to put him down." "What? Because he's cross-eyed?!" "No, because he's really heavy."

or

Two eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly; but when they lit a fire in the craft, it sank, proving you can't have your kayak and heat it too.

Of Strikes and Other Nonsense

Yesterday morning, the UAW (United Auto Workers for you lay-people) called a general strike against GM (General Motors, again for you lay-people). Not just a local limited strike, but a general, nationwide strike. Every GM plant has effectively been idled. And it is all because they don't like the concessions GM is asking the Union to accept so that GM (and the other two of the Big Three -- Ford and Chrysler) can hope to regain market share against Japanese and Korean automakers in the U.S. market.

See, the idea is that if GM can lower it's cost, particularly the high annual expense it incurs for retiree benefits (e.g. healthcare and pension expenses for those union members who have retired after putting in their time at high wage, guaranteed for life unless you screw up royally, jobs working in a factory), they can perhaps lower the cost involved in making automobiles and make the product end up being more attractive to U.S. buyers from a consumer standpoint.

But, the Union sees it as defending the lifestyles of it's members. That is pretty much it, in a nutshell. "We're entitled to this, and you are sure as heck gonna make sure we are still getting it, cuz we don't want to take no pay cut or no reduction in benefits or have to pay anything more out of our pocket for benefits. Oh, and you're gonna make sure our jobs are guaranteed, and even if you don't have work for us, you're gonna still pay our salary cuz you are gonna have a labor pool from which you will call us back to active work when you lay us off."

I'm not a big fan of labor unions. Why? Not because I'm a Yankee. Not because I'm a Republican. Not because I have an MBA. I'm not a big fan of labor unions because they are no better than the corporations they acuse of being greedy.

Think about it, Mr. Labor Union Head... Michigan has got one of the worst, if not the worst, unemployment rate in the current national economy... something like 7.5%. You call a general strike to quibble over stuff that all the people who work who aren't in unions can only dream of having. Your strike has already started to have a ripple effect on other companies, and before long on your union brothers that work for the suppliers at the tier one parts manufacturers (they won't have much storage space left after another couple days for the parts they keep on making), on the trucking firms and union truck drivers who won't have work because there is nothing to haul, on the steel plants and their union workers who will suddenly have to scale back production when demand for steel drops. And, your strike comes at a time when the beloved Democrat do-nothing, good-for-nothing Governor of the great state of Michigan is dumbfounded when asked why she can't seem to get business to locate in Michigan as she seeks to increase taxes and as more firms flee the state.

Anyway, I wish I had the luxury of calling a general strike for myself against life and the inequity of this world. I think I should be free to do so, because I am entitled to having a better standard of living. I'm entitled to less stress and more fun. I'm entitled to all kinds of neat grown up toys and vacations that cost lots of money. I'm entitled to living debt free. I'm entitled to anything I want and all that other nonsense.

Going on a Snipe Hunt

The other day, as I was casually strolling down the path of eBay’s gi-normous market place, I experienced a most singular event. eBay… Yes, I, just as probably three-quarters of the semi-savvy online people in these United States of America, have long found amusement and a sense of “I’m da man!” when bidding on and winning various items from this worldwide online hybrid of Odd Lots / Flea Market / Antique Store / Neighborhood Garage Sale.

In the years I’ve been bidding on and buying things, I have been successful in procuring such useful things like new computer components and unopened professional software packages for my obsolete computers at a fraction of the original retail price to ancient roman coins to collectable smurf and star wars figures.

I had been trying to win a bid for over a week on something I desperately needed (as much as I need another hole in my head according to my wife)… a mini-portable hard drive for my laptop to use for backup purposes (yeah, like you’ll ever do that…). A plethora of these hard drives have been showing up for auction the past couple weeks. These were new, never opened hard drives that retailed for like $150.00. And the average selling price, shipping included was just slightly over 50% of retail.

Well, I had gotten outbid on yet another auction for one by people who obviously needed it more than me, and there was a mere 25 minutes left in the auction. So, feeling particularly spiteful at yet another couple of people who outbid me, I felt the need to make them pay for it. You know the story line about people crazy in love with someone who decide “If I can’t have you, nobody can!” The same thing kind of happens on e-Bay… “If I can’t have it for the cheap price I want to pay, no outbidder is gonna get it for a song either!” So, I made another bid that was a couple dollars higher than the current leading bidder.

Here was the problem: my spiteful bid was only for like four dollars more than my bid that had been beaten. The highest value on my bid turned out to be the new leading bid, which had not been my intention! And the stupid thing was is that it was only one measly dollar more than the previous leading bidder’s highest bid. Okay, 22 minutes left… surely they are going to come back and outbid me… they want this, yes? I am feeling buyer’s remorse before the auction is even over, wondering how the heck I’m going to explain this to the wife.

As the minutes dragged on to the inevitable winning of something I had only half-heartedly wanted to win, particularly not at this price (yes, I’m a cheapskate and was hoping to get it for like fifty bucks, which would have been 1/3 of retail), I started to think maybe this wouldn’t be such a bad thing after all. Most of the other auctions were going for around this, and the shipping charge was a little cheaper.

One minute left, and by this time I have gotten the wife over by me at the laptop, explaining the “good news” to her and telling her of the benefits of having this particular hard drive. I am refreshing the auction screen every ten seconds to make sure I am still winning, in the odd event the other bidder does come back and outbid me. Twenty seconds left in the auction rolls by, and I refresh. Nothing. I’m confident that this is over. This is now a matter for the history books.

I refresh one last time and find that the auction is over. And as expected, I find I lost the auction… WHAT?! HOW THE…?! WHO?!

A new bidder sniped me.

Three seconds before the auction ended.

I was outbid at three lousy seconds!

Now that it sank in, I began to laugh. I’ve been sniped before, but never this close to the end of an auction. This bidder was absolutely classic! I told my wife, this was a brilliant piece of bidding strategy. Obviously this person really needed the hard drive and had a higher threshold for price pain than those of us who had been bidding over the past 24 hours.

I said, I should send this person an e-mail via e-Bay congratulating them on their bit of brilliance and tip my hat to them… The man who had tried to raise the price just to make it hurt for those who had outbid him ended up being a snipe, only to get sniped with three (not two and not four) seconds left!

When I went to check the individual’s profile to send the message, I noticed that it said they were from France.

Yes. France.

I started laughing even harder. Stupid Frenchie! It doesn’t look like you were using the brain the good Lord gave you… yes, you may have won the auction, but dude, the ten bucks shipping shown was for U.S. deliveries. You just spent seventy some odd dollars for a portable harddrive that is going to cost you probably twenty five to fifty dollars to ship overseas and put through customs. I no longer felt the need to congratulate the winner bidder on their brilliance.

And, five minutes later, I went and purchased the exact same thing as I lost in this auction on a Buy It Now sale for a nickel cheaper than what it would have cost me had I won the lost auction.

Okay, so I was wrong about the backyard...

Well, I was pleasantly surprised to find that our lawn and backyard did not end up looking like a miniature scale model of the Battle of Verdun. In fact, the contractor that was hired by Comcast to lay their new cable hardly left any trace they had been in anyone's yard.

How, pray tell, was this modern marvel of engineering accomplished?

First, they didn't put anything in the ground in the easement in our yard! It went under the pine trees in neighbors easement (he he he, though I may not be laughing if the trees die and fall in our yard, despite the free firewood I can then claim via nuisance).

Second, they didn't actually dig any trenches. They used what is called horizontal directional drilling. A friend in the ward here actually did that sort of work as a teen. His father owned one of those types of businesses, and so I've heard him talk about it. But, I had never seen the work or any of the machinery used, and it was already getting dark when I noticed what was in progress the other day before making the sarastic rant against mindless corporate entities that feel the need to invade my easements.

Here is a picture of a machine very similar to what was parked in our neighbor's yard for about 24 hours. It may actually be the same model. Anyway, it is about the size of a small bobcat front end loader.



So, anyway, the only signs that any work had been done are as follows: 1. the Comcast box sticking up out of the ground is not completely closed and has cable sticking out of it; 2. lots of mud on top of the mulch under my neighbor's pine trees; 3. about a 10 ft square area of sod that was dug up and replaced around all the utility boxes; 4. the spot where the machine had been sitting (on a pad no less to keep from damaging the ground or grass); and 5. a temporary path of pressed down grass where the machine had rolled across the easement in our yard to leave.

So, even though I still despise Comcast (having been a former customer), I guess it is a good thing the yard didn't get dug up. I'm fresh out of little green plastic army men to play in the mud with.

What are you sorry for?

I'm sorry for not having foreknowledge of what you call civil.

I'm sorry you find offensive an everyday word I include in communication.

I'm sorry for not celebrating the emotional baggage you carry.

I'm sorry for not being as tolerant as you point out you are.

I'm sorry that my world view does not mesh well with yours.

I'm sorry for not having the same rose color glass prescription.

I'm sorry that an apology I'm coerced to give doesn't sound sincere.

I'm sorry that said apology is not really sincere.

I'm sorry that I make it easy for you to point out my faults.

I'm sorry that I try holding up a mirror as defense.

I'm sorry that I am insensitive enough to express my thoughts.

I'm sorry that I am presumptious enough to have thoughts that differ.

I'm sorry that I try to be articulate to avoid being curt.

I'm sorry that I am irrelevant enough to deem a discussion done.

I'm sorry that I was not righteous enough to be from out west.

I'm sorry that I am unable to bow to you if you are.

I'm sorry that I have feelings that can be hurt.

I'm sorry that I feel passionately about things.

I'm sorry that I prefer to do instead of just to talk about it.

I'm sorry for contributing to analysis paralysis.

I'm sorry that I am not entirely independent.

I'm sorry that I can't be more dependent.

I'm sorry that I don't have the blessings you do.

I'm sorry that I don't have your trials too.

I'm sorry that I never had issues with my parents.

I'm sorry that I am adult orphan.

I'm sorry I try to behave as a saint.

I'm sorry that I am a sinner.

I'm sorry that I am an idealist.

I'm sorry that I am blunt about reality.

I'm sorry that I long for Camelot and The Round Table.

I'm sorry that I mourn their loss.


I'm sorry for being sorry.

The Yard Is Gonna Be Torn Up...

I curse the technologic upgrading that faceless mega corporations do in the name of earning the approval of the gods called profit and shareholder wealth. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the overstuffed leather chairs in the executives' office suites!

I won't even begin to hide my loathing for a certain cable company that we are glad to be free of... Comcast... as they are the culprits for this soon to occur raping of my property. I don't care if it is considered "easement". Have you guys seen the stinkin' plat map of our lot? Half the front yard, half the side yard, and about a third of the back yard are easements for the utilities and / or city... And since when is Comcast a public utility?

Comcast's contractor already has the heavy machinery on the street next to our yard and in our neighbors yard (how they got it there without crossing our property is beyond me at this point). But, probably tomorrow morning bright and early, they will be digging up the right of way in both our side yard and our back yard, potentially impacting the electrical lines (Detroit Edison never got staked, so I'm sure Comcast is perfectly safe in their excavationary pursuit). They may find a way to "Oooops..." cut the phone lines that did get staked, and will definitely not give a lick about cutting throw any thing as mundane as the sprinkler system water lines or the invisible pet fence. I'm not so concerned about the pet fence thingee... we don't have a dumb dog that we need to keep in the yard.

But the sprinkler system is gonna torque my shorts. We don't use it currently, but daggnabbit... they are probably going to end up destroying two of the four working zones. And no, they couldn't have done any of this in the middle of the summer when the lawn was on the verge of being utterly wasted thanks to the cursing of drought that was called down upon the State to punish it for re-electing the Billary wannabe governor that it did... no, they have to wait until mid-September when the rains have come again and the weather has cooled down and the lawn has just about recovered and is getting healthy again.

I saw our neighbor out in our back yard taking pictures of his precious pine trees that year after year, he allows to keep encroaching into our yard. Seems he must not have gotten the memo that it was Comcast and not AT&T doing the digging. The phone lines are staked under your trees, Dude... the Comcast lines are the ones that in my yard. You have nothing to worry about unless you are afraid that their machinery is going to rub up against the edges of some of the needled boughs. I think I would be more worried about the fact the Comcast lines look like they go right under the root system of the tall tree in the corner of our mutual neighbors yard. They cut through those roots, and the tree could fall on any one of our four houses... "Ooooops!"

Of course, maybe I should go out and take some pictures too. Of course, it is dark now, and there isn't anything really to take a picture of on our property... but, maybe he was on to something... maybe it would be good in case there is need to file a complaint or claim against Comcast and their conractor.

Afterall, we are not even a customer of said faceless mega-corporation, and after getting Dish Network several years ago and getting the Comcast monkey off our back, it will be a cold day in some level of Dante's Inferno before I will feel beholden to them again to be their customer. Yes, they have lost so many customers, they now feel that they have to go through and dig up people's yards to upgrade their cables so that they can win the fickle, uninformed masses back to paying them. And there is absolutely no word of compensating people for their inconvenience or loss at making their yards uninhabitable. There is no word that they will even plant new grass where they kill it.

But, should I expect that of them? I mean, afterall, we aren't their customer so why should they care? Ameritech certainly didn't years ago when we had to have a new phone line laid... we were MCI customers, but Ameritech owned the infrastructure outside the house. The phone line went bad in the fall, Ameritech replaced it a week later, but left it unburied for the whole winter and spring, and then finally sent someone out in the dead of summer to manually bury it. Apparently, Ameritech thought that burying the new phone line about 1 - 2 inches under the sod they just killed by carelessly spading off the root system in rock hard dry earth was sufficient. It took over a year for the grass to grow back.

Well, at least when that phone line goes bad (any bets Comcast cuts across it tomorrow as it isn't marked between the box to the house?), AT&T, who is our current phone carrier and the descendant company that ended up owning all of the now defunct Ameritech's infrastructure, will be obligated to repair it and I can insist that it be done correctly this time...

On the bright side of the day, I found one of my cousins found the Blunt Edge and had made a comment. I and my wife read several of the postings on her blog, and it was uncanny! We have very similar writing styles. Can't tell we're related! No sir-ree Bob! I encourage you to patronize her endeavor, there ain't nothin' shameful about Random Bits Off The Floor... :D

Weakness on Your Part Does Not Constitute Self-Righteous Behavior on My Part

Well, since the time I went off to Scout Camp with my troop last month, things have been interesting.

We had eighteen boys make some pretty stupid decisions, and to say that they now have the opportunity to learn and grow is an understatement. I won't go into detail, because a lot of it was boys behaving under a mob mentality of being too cool to take ownership and responsibility for their actions.

We had some good fun while at camp, but it was quickly overshadowed by the move to push the envelope, to see what they could get away with and with the feeling they were free of consequences. Not a lot was accomplished by the boys towards earning of merit badges or rank advancement relative to the number of boys that went.

The overall attitude was one of lack of respect for self, others, authority, all the while behaving under the premise of "Entertain me!"

The adult men who went along with the troop often were at wit's end in motivating the boys. I did not stay with the troop the whole week, but left mid-day on Thursday. By Friday evening, things had gone from bad to worse. Some boys were mouthing off to the adults there, one dropped the f-bomb, pocket knives were being used to kill wildlife for fun, and our own Stake President (whose son was one of the boys in the troop) got so aggravated he had to physically leave the camp for a couple hours to gather his wits about him.

But enough about that. These were boys and they can still be taught what constitutes responsible and mature behavior. That is the purpose of the BSA when applied with the Aaronic Priesthood. It will take work by the boys, leaders, and naturally parents.

There was no excuse for a lot of the poor behavior, and it reflected poorly on the troop and yes, in my opinion, the boys' parents to some extent. Can I even say that in today's PC environment? Well after debriefing had occured with the Troop Committee Chair, The YM's president, and one-on-ones with some of the dads who went up, I consulted with my brother, The Scoutmaster bwa-ha-ha , and I relayed the notion that had we even come close to thinking about behaving the way a lot of the boys actually did behave, we would have been knocked into the next month...

Yes, I'm speaking figuratively... not actually about being physically or even emotionally knocked around. My brother and I as well as most of the boys we grew up with had parents who taught us who we were, what our potential was, what the expectation for behavior was, and that adherence to that standard was indeed a reflection upon not only us, but the family and our parents good names. And you know what, we believed it and still do, and we are perfectly well adjusted people.

Anyway, what happened at Scout Camp has bothered me quite a bit the last month. And there has been another thing that happened the same week as Scout Camp that has been equally bothersome.

At the forum I help moderate, an individual revealed that he studied away his testimony of the Gospel and the Church. So now he and his wife are apostate, but they want our love and support. And yet, they seem to be puzzled at the reaction they get from faithful members of the Church now. They indicate their falling away has been going on for some time as they examined doubts, but they were never up front with their faithful member friends online from the get-go as to their doubts. Their actual thoughts have been shown by comments they have made elsewhere since their announcement, and now they feel violated that the things they posted in other public forums and on their blog are known by those who had thought of themselves as friends of the couple.

The expectation from them is that nothing is different now, so why should you look at or behave towards us differently...

Uh, duh... you weren't forthright with us, our level of trust towards you has suffered greatly, and yet because we are reacting to the feeling perhaps we may have been deceived a bit, somehow we are the ones in the wrong? Yes, the one thing that was binding between us is gone, and that is belief in the Gospel and faithfulness to the Church. That is not a lame thing to base a relationship off of. It consists of common goals, common beliefs, common values, and the ability to give the other person the benefit of the doubt based on that. So, how is it that you feel you should still automatically get that benefit of the doubt when there was no other facet to the relationship? Life doesn't work that way, nor do relationships. We are within normal parameters for feeling hurt, sad, angry, betrayed, and yes even suspicious.

As hard as it may seem, this must be said: Your weakness in turning from a whole belief system and essentially blaming every hardship and feeling of inadequacey you have on the doctrines and people within the Church because it is easier than giving up whatever pride and emotional baggage you want to hoard does not constitute self-righteous behavior on the part of those who are not following the path of confusion you selected simply because they state they do not agree with you. So stop trying to imply your situation -- past, present, and future -- is the result of anyone else but yourself. You not only made your bed, but you have shopped for it, brought it home, and set it up. No one forced you to either. So, when you find that it is not that comfortable sleeping in down the road, I hope you have sense enough to humbly come back and try holding onto the iron rod along the path again. You may be in for a surprise that those you thought were so hypocritical and self-righteous are for the most part imperfect disciples of Christ trying hard to turn their will over to Him and will have their arms open towards you.

So, is there a correlary between folks raised in the Church who fall away and the level of teaching parents do in lovingly teaching them (and expecting them) to remember who they were and to behave accordingly? I don't know. I think there may be. It seems that today so many parents are afraid to set those expectations firmly in their children's mind... you're going to hurt their feelings or psyche if your teach your children about duty, responsibility, honor, one's good name instead of catering to their every whim. Has the parenting paradigm shifted so greatly that it is now more noble to teach a child to always try to find themself... that whatever feels right for you is okay and don't worry about falling on your face because I'll be there to cushion you from any hurt?

I found out this past week that one of the areas I served my mission in some twenty years ago experienced a significant apostacy within the last five to seven years. Sounds like it was over the same thing as this couple I mentioned above: feeding doubts created by studying "historical documents" which are of no worth to the soul. While I was a missionary in that area, the ward was split in that city. A small dependent branch was formed in another part of my former assigned area some years after I returned home. I think within the last couple years, the fallout of just one influential person studying, doubting, and then passing it on resulted in so many people leaving their testimony (including priesthood holders and some leaders), that first the branch was dissolved and then the wards were merged into one unit. I've been in touch with one of the full-time sister missionaries currently in the city (she is the daughter of family friends and my wife and I knew her when she was a Beehive). Unfortunately, this sister had not heard of any of the names of people I had known twenty years ago. Many of these were people I had taught and baptised or whom I had developed good spiritual relations with in the long 8 months there and they were solid core members of the ward(s). I fear some of them may have been casualties of the falling away. Germans can be great, faithful Saints. But they can also be damn arrogant idiots who aren't satisfied with the simple truths of The Gospel if they don't keep their pride in check.

And in all three of these examples, the common thread is a false sense of pride developing into variations on the theme of hubris. How well it has been said by God's annointed prophets in all dispensations of time... pride (and envy) is an insidious canker to the soul.